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Brown Trout in Alabama?
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mat1583
Time For An Intervention


Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 1049

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purple Squirrel wrote:
From my trip to the Upper Chattahoochee River above Helen, Ga. earlier this year and talking with the guide at the Unicoi Fly Shop, who also owns and stocks his own private water. They stock only sterile females to; prevent reproduction and they do not travel as far as the native fertile females. So there are options availible from the hatcheries to prevent some or all the stockings to over propagate the native species. Since the State of Georgia has some unusal water rights laws that allow landowers to own the water and the fishing rights to them, I tend to believe him. http://www.unicoioutfitters.com/


That's interesting. If land owners can own the water, then if you release something upstream that goes into your neighbor's section of the water and either pollutes it or does some kind of damage, can you be sued? Or what about if you are fishing the boundary of your water and your neighbor's and you catch a large fish that travels downstream into your neighbor's water. Is it considered trespassing if you continue down the stream (like it would be if you chased a deer onto your neighbor's property).
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denn729
Serious River Addict


Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 471
Location: Margaret, AL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does Tennessee stock Browns into the Elk River? Is so, and if Browns are tolerent of warm water, wouldn`t those browns make their way into Alabama?
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kreekn
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Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 8067
Location: Duck Springs,AL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolerance and preference aren't the same. They are cold water fish and I assume would prefer to stay in the cold water. Until a few years ago the state record rainbow was a fish caught in Weiss Lake, which was likely stocked somewhere in GA, but I don't know of another instance of this happening.
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X
Time For An Intervention


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1842
Location: Hoover, AL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So does anyone know when the next TU meeting is?
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Scott S
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Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 87
Location: Pelham, AL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike strength wrote:
So does anyone know when the next TU meeting is?
It will be in November but the specific date hasn't been set yet. The meetings are every other month.

Here is the TU chapter forum. Sign up and come visit.

http://sipseytu.org/forum/index.php
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HiCountry
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Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 1467

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

denn729 wrote:
Does Tennessee stock Browns into the Elk River? Is so, and if Browns are tolerent of warm water, wouldn`t those browns make their way into Alabama?


Yes they do.
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Bamaspot
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Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 1712
Location: Bogart, Ga

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="jdavis22
Don't make offers you might regret. Where in GA and is it public water?[/quote]

I wasn't making any offers. Laughing
That water is private. Brigadoon Lodge.
That is my Bro-in-law in the picture.
I can't afford to fish there.
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creekfreek
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Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 851
Location: Opelika

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious, but what type of stockings are you hoping for. Those to create a self sustaining population or a put an take of catchable fish?
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~~~waders~~~
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Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 1445
Location: North AL

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The state of TN has introduced stocking several species of fish into the Elk. Rainbows, Browns, Brook Trout and the occasional cuttbow.

Of course they also spent hundred of thousands of dollars to install a system to provide higher rates of dissolved oxygen below the dams and minimal flow requirements. Most of which were initialized due to pressure from clubs, groups, organizations, guides, store owners etc... a process that started in the early 80's before the dam broke.

And yes the number of fisherman fishing the river from years past has definitely grown. However 95% of the fisherman fish 5% of the water.
No body wants to work for it anymore! The better fish tend to end up 2-10 miles down river in optimal habitat with less pressure and usually only move upstream when the water tends to warm. Fortunately with the minimal flow requirements studies are showing the fish are not traveling as far as they once were. However fish are still being reported and caught at the mouth of the elk /confluence of the TN river during winter months.
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Seminole Steve
3lb Mountain Redeye


Joined: 12 May 2009
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Location: Auburn University

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few things....

brown trout will almost certainly be unable to spawn in the Sipsey. It is extremely rare for stocked trout to be able to spawn below dams in the southeast. The only place I know of where this happens regularly is below South Holston in northeast TN. There, they have a weir that holds back the pulse of water and lets it out more gradually. So, for the most part, there is no danger of these fish establishing a reproducing population of their own. That means they can be controlled by stocking (or not stocking).

second, the comparing TN and AL state game and fish depts is apples and oranges. TN is farther north and has lots of hypolimnetic release dams that can support trout. Most of the dams in Alabama do not release cold enough water to support trout. Only Lewis Smith and maybe Martin are deep enough to do that. So, trout will never become the big cash cow that they have in places like TN and AR. Thus, ADCNR likely has little interest in pursuing a brown trout fishery either in the Sipsey or anywhere else: trout are not nor are ever likely to become a major fishery in the state.

third, Alabama does not even raise its trout, it gets them from somewhere else. In contrast, TN raises trout in about 5 different hatcheries, plus has a National fish hatchery at Dale Hollow Lake, which actually raises almost 1/2 the trout stocked in the state, including almost 3/4 of the brown trout. I am told that it is much harder (and thus more $) to raise brown trout than rainbow trout. They just don't do well in hatcheries. So, it not such a simple matter of replacing browns with rainbows. It would cost more, and maybe be more of a problem than it would be worth.

Last, brown trout have been shown to eat rare and endangered species in some places where they have been stocked, so if there are any in the Sipsey (and there are, but I don't know where they are found), then that is a black mark against stocking browns. A stream I know near Va Tech used to have great brown trout fishing in it but the state discontinued stocking browns in there 10 years ago after research found that they were consuming large numbers of an endangered darter.

It is OK to ask, but don't be surprised if ADCNR is not interested.
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dblhaul
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Location: B'ham

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll add when I have about 2 hours to type and edit.
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jhightower
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.alabamapower.com/hydro/warrior_application/Biological_031307.pdf
Nothing to do with trout..........
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Purple Squirrel
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW Shocked , now we need one of the site's legal beagles read, condense, and translate all of this into good ol'boy fishing lingo
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X
Time For An Intervention


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1842
Location: Hoover, AL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDITED TO REMOVE HIS PHONE NUMBERS AND MY ADDRESS


Mr. Strength,

We do not automatically require a formal scientific study as part of our process for the permitted stocking of fish in public waters.

When we are contacted by a private individual or entity that wishes to stock fish (or any other aquatic organism) into Alabama public waters; we provide them with an application package for them to utilize in seeking a permit for the stocking (see the attached PDF file). Once we have received a completed stocking permit application; it is evaluated by Fisheries Section Biologists utilizing the criteria that are specified in the application package. An individual permit is either issued or denied based on the results of the evaluation of the application against these criteria.

We are aware that there are groups and individuals that are interested in having brown trout stocked into the Lewis Smith Dam tailrace. However, there are no plans within the Division of Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries (WFF) to undertake any brown trout stockings at this time.

As you are probably aware, the present program that provides for the stockings of rainbow trout by the US Fish & Wildlife Service (FWS) into the tailrace below Lewis Smith is made possible through an agreement between where WFF annually provides Gulf strain striped bass fry to FWS in return for the rainbow trout. Coincidently, the majority of the striped bass fry that are provided to the FWS are produced from striped bass brood stock obtained from Lewis Smith Lake. Since Lewis Smith Lake is not a Federal project, there is no Federal mitigation nexus that would provide FWS a means to sustain these rainbow trout stockings without having an agreement such as we have in place.

You are correct that even relatively small scientific studies are costly in terms of funding and other resources. Fortunately, we have been able to evaluate previous applications for privately sponsored public water fish stockings without the need for special studies due primarily to the fact that we have access to a great deal of previous scientific research and the professional experience of our biological staff.

WFF has on several occasions considered the idea of a trout fishing permit/license, but at this time there are no plans to pursue one. Please be aware that all hunting and fishing licenses must be instituted through legislative action. WFF does not have the independent authority to implement fishing or hunting licenses.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions or need additional information.

Thank you for your interest and concern for our aquatic resources.



Nick Nichols
Assistant Chief of Fisheries
Alabama Division of Wildlife & Freshwater Fisheries
64 North Union St.
Suite 551
Montgomery, AL 36130





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Strength [mailto:mstrength@trussville.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 10:22 AM
To: Nichols, Nick
Subject: Stocking Permit



Mr. Nichols,

I am aware that the Sipsey Chapter of Trout Unlimited is currently circulating a petition to allow for the stocking of brown trout in the tailraces of Lewis Smith dam. Iím writing you for more information on this process.

My central concern is that this needs to be studied prior to the issuance of a permit but the petition does not request such a study. Does the state automatically perform such a study if a permit is requested?

Iím not opposed to the idea of stocking brown trout, but Iím not a biologist and I do recognize the need to have experts review such a plan. Certainly these studies cost money so who normally funds such a study? Also are you aware if Alabama has considered the idea of a trout license to fund research and stocking of trout in the Sipsey?

Thank your for your time to answer my questions and for your service to the state wildlife and sportsmen.

Sincerely,

Mike Strength
Hoover, AL


Last edited by X on Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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X
Time For An Intervention


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1842
Location: Hoover, AL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it appears that the Sipsey Chapter is asking for a stocking permit when no study is required by the state.

This is seeming more like a bad idea.
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